My Vertical Hive

My Vertical Hive – A work in progress.

Criteria

And this is how I and my vertical top bar hive look in the planning stage.

And this is how I and my vertical top bar hive look in the planning stage.

I’ve come up with my version of a vertical top bar hive using the following criteria:

  • Designed for prolific bees in a northern climate.
  • Tall enough for small cell sized comb development.
  • One box per season rotation.
  • Square configuration.
  • Interchangeable cover and bottom.
  • Self spacing top bars.
  • Comb spaced at 1 1/4″.
  • Migratory.
  • Stackable.
  • Conventional construction material.
  • Easy construction with minimal cuts/parts.
  • Optimal material use.

Warre’? Not Quite.

This design is loosely based on the principles of the Warre’ hive. It’s larger and taller. The walls are thinner. And a simple migratory style cover/bottom board replaces the Warre’s elaborate insulated cover. Here’s why this is a better design for my beekeeping.

I’ve noticed, in my horizontal top bar hives, that the bees will initially draw out a comb about 12 to 14 inches wide, then come back later and finish the rest of the comb’s width with drone comb. An optimum comb width might be in this size range. So, I’ve set the hive width there.

Brood comb cell size decreases at about a 1% rate down it’s height in a top bar hive. To get an effect small cell sized core requires comb at least 9 inches tall.  And it’s a necessity for best hive health. So, I’ve set the box height beyond that.

My bees consistently overwinter in a cluster that’s about 11 ” to 13″ in diameter including the comb. So, that’s about the minimum interior width of my hive. And I prefer to have at least one unoccupied comb between the cluster and hive’s sidewall.

In my climate, a prolific colony can function and over winter best in a three deep Lang hive. There’s enough space for the cluster. And enough room for food so that supplimental feeding isn’t required. That’s about 7800 cubic inches. A taller, square, hive would need at least four boxes for an equal volume. That’s a larger hive than used for Europe’s very conservative native bees which the original Warre’ design was design for.

My cover violates several of the basic principles for the insulated, ventilated covers of the Warre’ hive. But my winter condensation observations show this cover is sufficient for my climate. Need more insulation? Apply blue construction foam panels externally. And if additional sealing is needed above the top bars, place a canvas/plastic cloth underneath the flat cover.

I’m tossed about top bar thickness. I’d prefer a thin, narrow one that would minimally impact comb building and broodnest. But such a top bar would flex and cause comb failure, when removing comb, if not handled very carefully. I’ve opted for one that’s thinner than what I’d use in a top bar hive, with its longer, heaver, more frequently worked comb. But one that’s robust enough to handle comb management.

The flat cover/bottom boards are convertible and stackable which is almost a necessity for a migratory hive.

Plans

vertical tbh

Here's what I've come up with. It's a very simple hive that optimizes material usage. And minimizes labor.

I’ve used Google Sketchup to draft up the plans. It’s a free 3D CAD program. It has a very intuitive interface and is quickly mastered. With it you can enlarge, rotate, manipulate, measure, section, and edit my Vertical Top bar hive Sketchup file in any fashion you choose. You can download it  here.

Like the design, but want different dimensions. Just rescale it. You can stretch or squeeze it anyway you like.

Different hive components are on different layers. Viewed, printed them or not, according to your needs.

Construction

Four box vertical top bar hive.

Four box vertical top bar hive.

Glue two 1″ x 8″ x 3/4″ pieces of lumber together to form the building stock. Cut the sides, cover and bottom from it. That allows a square hive, 14 1/2 inches on a side.

Boxes

The front and back have a rabbit cut in them for the top bars. Fasten a lifting cleat to the front and back of every box.

Top Bars

Cut top bars from 3/4″ stock. They are 7/8″ wide and 13 5/8″ long. Two finish nails, driven to the proper depth, give a 3/8″ space between the bars and allow self spacing. Cut a thin notch down the center for a foundation based starter strip or a bead of beeswax.

Eleven top bars on 1 1/4″ spacing will make a tight fit without any working room. This is the configuration I’ll probably use as I don’t plan on manipulating comb if I don’t have to.

Ten top bars spaced at 1 1/4″ will allow a half comb width of free space on each side. This would be the configuration I’d use if I used conventional comb management practices and needed some working room.

And different comb spacings  can easily be handled by varying the depth the finish nails are driven into the top bar. Ten bars make a tight fit at 1 3/8″ spacing. Nine bars will provide working room.

Cover/Bottom

The cover and bottom are identical migratory type components. They have 3/4″ wood strips around their edges. The bottom lacks a 3/4″ wood strip across the front, which provides the entrance. Tack the front strip in place. Then it can easily be removed or affixed converting a cover to a bottom or vice versa.

End grain is exposed on these hive parts. But I found that the conventional ways to cover them actually traps moisture causing them to rot. So, I’ve left them exposed.

With the minimal management needed for this hive, nail both the cover and the bottom to the hive body with galvanized roofing nails.

Management

Management is very simple. At the end of the season, heft the hive to find if it’s heavy enough. If so, remove the top box  and harvest its’ honey. Then, return the  empty box  to the bottom of the hive. If the hive’s not heavy enough, feed it. Or place a spare feed box on top.

I haven’t built or managed bees in this hive. But it’s the most interesting project on my list. I let you know how it goes.

Enjoy!

Responses

  1. Good idea not to make rebate!
    But, how can you prevent rain water from running inside the hive?

    • Hi Yoshi,

      I’d like to eliminate the ‘rebate’. It’s a place hive beetles can hide between the top bars. In this regard, a top bar hive has an advantage over this vertical hive.

      I’m thinking simpler might be better.

      The hive covered was patterned after a conventional flat migratory cover used extensively in the US. I’ve used them for decades, here, without problems.

      But if you are in a really wet environment another approach might be better.

      Yoshi, thanks for your note and observations.

      Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler

  2. [...] My Vertical Hive [...]

    • Hi Dennis,

      I’m glad your great site is online again.
      It’s an invaluable source of information.

      I’m planning to build a vertical top bar hive.
      The question that bothers me most is the
      height of the boxes. Warre hive beekeepers
      say the height of 20cm inside the box is crucial
      for the fact that the bees do not build the comb
      through, i.e. do not fix the comb to the next
      top bars. They say bees stop building comb if
      it’s 20 cm tall. On the other hand your findings
      on natural comb indicate 20cm may not
      be enough to get a sufficient number of small cells.
      So I’m very interested what your experiences with
      your tall boxes will be. If Warre beekeepers are
      right you probably will need piano wire to separate
      the boxes as japanese beekeepers do. I don’t know
      if this is a disadvantage worth bothering about.

      Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
      Regards
      Armin

      • Hi Armin,

        You raise a good point between what Warre’ observed in his bees and what I’ve seen in mine. My natural comb experience is mostly horizontal while a Warre’ hive’s comb is in a tall, narrow, vertical space. I’ve always wondered about the differences between the two.

        I’d like to build a ‘bee tree’ and see. Thinking maybe a 6 foot tall box with a cross section area of a 1 to 2 square feet would do. One side of the box would be screwed on and covered with a plastic sheet. It could be removed for observation.

        Then, I would like to insert top bars into the situation and again watch what the bees do.

        I think it might be harder to design or fine tune the Warre’ hive for climatic/seasonal differences than most Warre’ beekeepers would admit. Top bar hive beekeepers make up any mismatch between their fixed volume hives and seasonal difference with frequent management. But for me, the Warre’s primary advantage over a top bar hive, would be it’s need for infrequent management. That would offset it’s heavy lifting disadvantage.

        I’ve got many new things to see and learn.

        Let me know how things go for you, Armin.

        Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler

  3. Hi Dennis,

    perhaps you’re interested
    to have a look at this project
    with altered Warre dimensions here:
    http://tinyurl.com/yjn7c7f
    (It’s a pdf in german and english
    translation)
    First results can be seen here:
    http://tinyurl.com/yfea39x
    (It’s only german, but there are
    3 pictures.)
    Surprisingly the author thinks
    the proportion of width and
    height of the comb is important.
    I don’t buy that, because in a
    natural cylindrical cavity all combs are of different width.
    But he thinks his experiment
    was a success because the comb is only “minimally attached” to the bars below. He thinks the fixing took place because the spacing of the bars was too wide, wider than Warre’s.
    Instead of keeping the comb
    proportions I would try to keep the volume of the box the same
    as Warre’s.
    That would mean 20×20x45cm
    instead of 20×20x30cm, the “swapped” Warre-dimension.

    Regards
    Armin

    • Hi Armin,

      Neat! And some good looking honey as well.

      I wonder if the attachments are affected by the width of the top bars as well as their spacing. Do you know if anyone has run a Warre’ without top bars? Maybe that will be a better version of my test than my ‘bee tree’.

      Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler

  4. It’s interesting how closely your measurements match those of Layens (345mm horizontally square, internal). Also, as I mentioned earlier in a private e-mail, you can keep water out of the hive boxes by either moving the lifting cleats down away from the top edges or placing another pair of cleats at the bottom edges, so they will mate with each other.

    • Hi Charles,

      I originally placed the cleats at the top of the box. It’s a location that reinforces the rabbit and prolongs the life of a conventional Lang type box with all the weight and leverage applied when splitting them apart. Rotating them upward. Balancing them on the end of the lower box, etc.

      But I’ve been thinking about moving the cleats downward as you suggested. The boxes shouldn’t experience the same kind or frequency or stress that a conventional Lang boxes gets. And shouldn’t need the same kind of reinforcement.

      The cleats could be centered on and reinforce the seam between the two wood pieces that are glued together to form the sides. That would be half way down when using 8″ lumber.

      And about 1/3 the way down when using 6″ and 10″ lumber as suggested by Bob Baily in his November 2 2009 Probiotics comment. I sometimes have trouble finding good 10″ lumber. But the effort should be worth it.

      I’ll revise the drawings.

      Thanks-Dennis

  5. Hi Charles,

    Great to hear from you again. And great idea for diverting the water.

    How are coming with your historical hive building projects?

    I’ve thought about building Langstroth’s original hive but find my wood working skills need something simple. :>)

    Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler

    • [World Beehive Project]
      Running into money and workshop-space issues. It’s been a truly abominably bad year for my primary business. I may have to resort to recycled materials… Which is not such a bad thing, just irritating and outside of my original goals with the project. Workshop-space? Well… it’s currently in near constant use with maintenance and repair of my taxis. Not quite sure what to do there, but I’ll get it figured out. I think this year I’ll get a trunk-hive, a bienen-kiste and one of Oscar Perone’s hives built. Those all require minimal monies and workshop.

      ~ Charles

  6. Hi Guys,

    On November 2, 2009 Bob Bailey included the following in a Kombucha comment. It’s a great modification:

    Parenthetically, your vertical hive is of interest. Had two suggestions: 1. increase the lgth/width by 1/4 in to enable a drone frame inclusion.(may be far fetched.) 2. Instead of two 8 in boards, use a 10 in. and a 6 in. The two joined 8 in boards make a continuous seam around the middle of the box. Rabbit 2 of the 10 in boards to hold the top boards, place the 6 below them. Then on the sides use the 6 in boards on the top, the 10 in below them. You can interlock the two sizes.

    Have mine cut already; will assemble them before spring.

    Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler


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