A little help for our friends?
Why?
I’d been following the research conducted on the recent spat of colony collapse disorder(CCD). Some of it includes looking at the composition of symbiotic micro organisms inside the bee’s digestive system. When I saw a Beesource discussion, about the possibility of probiotics enabling bees to resist disease, it knocked me off my chair because using probiotics has profoundly affected my health. You can read about it on my Kombucha Experience page.
Probiotics and Bees?
If human health can get so far out of wack by lacking what probiotics re-establishes, I suspect a similar process could impact the honeybee’s health. Honeybees are self-propelled, electrically charged, environmental samplers. They get into lots of places I don’t. They have very simple immune systems. Their broodnest is a chemical sink. And Lactobacillus based fermentation is a key element of bee nutrition/food preparation.
I suspect that they might be more at risk from a probiotic imbalance than I am.
Is it natural?
Natural beekeeping is much more than just leaving the bees to themselves. It’s a pro active way to intelligently keep bees, knowing when to intercede and when to stay out. In a natural environment, bees would be exposed to all the probiotic critters. And they could establish, maintain or replenish those they need. But that might not be the case today. Something in our environment could interrupt of defeat that process, even if we keep chemicals and drugs out of our hives. Using probiotics might restore something man might have inadvertently taken out. Could that be important?
Looking at Michael Bush’s post #12, at the Beesource link above, the symbiotic microbial relationships that exist in a honeybee, aren’t as simple as they seem. In fact, they may be even more important to a simple creature like a honeybee, than they are for a more complex creature like myself. Exposing bees to probiotics wouldn’t introduce anything new into the honeybee’s natural environment. Would it be beneficial? I don’t know. It has the potential. But it shouldn’t do any harm.
Tim Hall, another Beesource contributor, suggests that protecting a hive environment, so symbiotic microbial relations can exist, could be important. I agree. When feeding bees, some beekeepers add bleach to the sugar syrup extending it’s shelf life. Some also use bleach as a hive disinfectant. Although it doesn’t kill the bees, I suspect in might have some long term negative effects.
Probiotics, What Kind?
So, just what kind of probiotics would benefit the bees?. I really don’t know. And I don’t think anyone else does either. It could be a fertile field of investigation for the budding bee PhD candidate. I suspect a look at the fermentations that’s used to preserve pollen would be a start. Another area might focus on bee digestion.
Sorry, not much information here. You could be the one who opens the door!
What’s a beekeeper to do?
First, and most important, protect and preserve those relationship that naturally exist in the hive. Don’t add or treat with anything that might upset or destroy them.
Second, get smart in this area. Follow the latest research and see how it might apply. Could a probiotic be generated from bee bread?
After my experience with small cell and then natural comb, I know how seemly insignificantly small changes can greatly affect honeybee health. Inoculating a hive with probiotics would be very easy. It’s a must do test for me. And after giving the bees some probiotics, I could imbibe a little for myself. If it doesn’t do much for them, I know it will benefit me.
I’ll let you know how things go.
And I must thank Baithe for starting the probiotic thread on Beesource. As important as probiotics have been to my health, I would never have thought about their possible benefit to the bees.
My Own Little Test
In the early spring, I grade my hives strong, average, below average, weak. This year, I sprayed the below average hives with slightly diluted, about 30%, solution of overly ripe kombucha. It was probably about 3 weeks old.
The spraying was done incidentally, without any planning, etc., just to watch the first reaction of the bees. After spraying, the below average hives were left alone, without any more manipulation or observations.The kombucha worked better than smoke for controlling the bees in a normal situation.
To check the yard’s progress, I’d pop the covers off a couple of strong hives and a couple of weak hives every few weeks. Ten weeks later, I popped the covers off the below average hives and found they had a full super of honey, while all the others, even those with larger bee populations had none. In fact, they hadn’t even entered the supers.
I was quite surprised to say the least! And I’d had forgotten about the incidental kombucha spraying until looking at my notes a week later.
To say it was a test is probably a stretch. But the observations are interesting none the less.
Why Kombucha?
It was a shot in the dark, as nothing is known about those complex relationships in a bee. But as all life is related. And as it’s more similar in need and function than it is different. Kombucha was my best first guess.
Few beekeepers will admit that honeybees can be found sipping up their own probiotic drink at the base of a compost or manure pile. And that they often prefer it to a clean water source located nearby. Just where do all those antibiotics, herbicides and pesticides used in modern agriculture end up anyway? Could it be that some compound, now found in the bees natural probiotic drink, is deleterious to their health?
I thought about this regarding a probiotic source. But something about our concept of pure and natural/hive/honey gets in the way. Somehow, I found it more appropriate to introduce Kombucha into a hive rather than compost/manure tea.
We’ll all know more when the ARS folks get into the details.
Read your material, maybe a year ago. Wanted to try it. Read up on the stuff; tried to get some ‘mother’ from two sources. They took the money from my credit card, but I never heard from them; and certainly no shipment of any ‘mother’.
I’d still like to try it. The ‘reliable’ suppliers want to sell you some expensive bottled stuff.
Does anyone know a reliable source of ‘mother’?
Parenthetically, your vertical hive is of interest. Had two suggestions: 1. increase the lgth/width by 1/4 in to enable a drone frame inclusion.(may be far fetched.) 2. Instead of two 8 in boards, use a 10 in. and a 6 in. The two joined 8 in boards make a continuous seam around the middle of the box. Rabbit 2 of the 10 in boards to hold the top boards, place the 6 below them. Then on the sides use the 6 in boards on the top, the 10 in below them. You can interlock the two sizes.
Have mine cut already; will assemble them before spring.
BB
By: Bob Bailey on 11/02/2009
at 3:01 pm
Hi Bob,
I’ve ordered several kombucha mothers(mushrooms) from:
http://www.happyherbalist.com/kombuchamushroomstarterkits.aspx
Neat modifications on the hive. I’ll go back and change the design.
Thanks for the note and comments. Hope the kombucha works for you. Let me know how about your experience with the hive as well.
Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler
By: Dennis Murrell on 11/03/2009
at 9:02 am
Got the ‘mother’ today. Hope to get it started this week.
In construction, I recommend screw-nails, similar to plasterboard installation. I use 1 5/8 for hive assembly and the top bar frames; use 1 in for light stuff, even fastening frames in place. Easy to remove with a battery screwdriver.
Bob Bailey
Having trouble finding your bee stuff these days –old addressed don’t forward quite right.
By: Bob Bailey on 11/07/2009
at 6:42 pm
Good luck Bob. Let me know how things work out for you.
Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler
By: Dennis Murrell on 11/09/2009
at 5:02 pm
Hi Dennis, thought I’d drop you a line about the kambucha and my hives.
Tried about a 3 part water, 1 part KBC as a spray to get the bees down while putting the hives back together and it worked pretty good. Couldn’t tell if they were just cleaning up or they liked it so I tried some on the landing board and they definatly were going after it.
As for me I drink a quart or more a day, can’t say as it’s a life changer but it got me off the diet Mt Dew, that is truly a miracle! LOL
p.s. Don’t know what your recipe calls for, but mine has a half pound sugar per gal of ferment, didn’t like the sugary taste so I put in a pound and a half of honey for my five gal batch, turned out great! CU rwl
By: Rod Lawrence on 11/16/2009
at 9:12 pm
Hi Rod,
Thanks for the note. I’ve had about the same experience with the bees and kombucha. I’ll include it as a standard item when working bees. Don’t think it will replace the smoker in a bad situation. But would replace it most other times.
I use about a 1/3 cup of sugar per quart and I let it go until the sweetness is mostly gone.
Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler
By: Dennis Murrell on 11/23/2009
at 10:35 am
Hi Rod,
The latest research is out and you are right on track.
I think using honey as the basis for a kombucha ferment is the cutting edge!
I’ll post more about it later today.
Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler
By: Dennis Murrell on 11/24/2009
at 10:51 am
Dennis
Greetings. First year TBH beek and lovin it. Question-which koombucha kit should I start with, in your opinion?
Thanks,
Carrie
By: Carrie on 11/25/2009
at 12:00 pm
Hi Carrie,
If the kombucha is for you, I would buy GT’s Kombucha from a health food store. And drink only 1/4 cup per day for a month. Then make a decision if it’s right for you.
After that, if you want to brew it, get a culture from http://www.happyherbalist.com/kombuchamushroomstarterkits.aspx and use any surplus for the bees.
I find that using the 2+gallon water crock is a good size. I started smaller and regretted it. The water crocks are readily available locally, through Happy Herbalist, and on the internet in a variety of styles/prices.
Regards – Dennis Murrell – BWrangler
By: Dennis Murrell on 11/28/2009
at 11:05 pm
I have tried the kombucha, it does work. I have formulated my own probiotics which consist of over 200 different strains of soil borne organisms. This seems to enhance the health of the hive even more than just straight kombucha, but when used in tandem the results are even better.
Wil
http://www.beeassist.com
By: Wil on 12/21/2009
at 8:53 pm